10 comments on “Yet Another Reason Not To Vote For Obama

  1. Very interesting post, m. You do make a good point about increased overhead for the companies means increased prices at the pump. Except for one thing: there is a lot more involved in setting gas prices than just the company overhead. Read this from the senate’s website. it’s pretty lengthy (pity the intern that had to research it) but describes exactly how gas prices are set and how taxes currently play into price setting (answer: they do, but not as much as other factors). My thought is that if you really want to lower the price of gas (and I’m not sure that we do, actually, but that’s another post I suppose), then focusing on the biggest cost outlay (price per barrel of crude) would be the place to start.

    Also, I don’t know your friend Jimmy (and I’m sure he is a very nice person if he is friends with you), but I found his rant completely nonsensical and it actually made me want to vote for Obama more than before I read it.

  2. That’s an interesting point, Charlotte. I read the first two or three pages of the Senate paper. The main thing I noticed is that gas prices are set just like the prices of almost all other commodities. They seem to make a big deal out of the fact that market and competitors prices are taken into account, but that’s true of every non-monopoly/oligopoly commodity.

    But, my point about Obama was about the fact that raising taxes on oil companies will raise the price of gas, regardless of degree. So, he’s either ignorant of how basic economics works (which would be corroborated by his health care policy) or he’s willfully ignoring what’s best for what’s politically expedient. I’m not sure which is worse.

    You’re correct that lowering the price of gas requires starting with the price of crude. In fact, All Things Considered did an interesting piece on this.

    I’m sorry you didn’t like Jimmy’s rant about Obama. Which part did you find nonsensical? I agreed with it, for the most part. I did think there were better examples of how the United States is a country to be proud of. However, I completely agree with his point that, taking all things into account, this is still a nation to be proud of.

  3. Noooo! I just spent half an hour crafting an elegant response and then I accidentally navigated away from your page and it is goooooone. Wah. Now you get the short version:

    – The NPR piece was great. It basically said we are both wrong. That the greatest impact on the price of gas is individual speculation in the oil market.

    – I think Obama does know that the tax reform will raise prices. This is good for 3 reasons:
    1. We’re already too dependent on oil and it is hurting our society and our world (your disagreement with me about climate change duly noted). A price hike would force change at every level.
    2. The government has to get it’s money somewhere. Seeing as Bush is leaving his successor with a 3 Trillion dollar debt to china so he could throw money at the citizens in an effort to leave on a high note, we need money.
    3. Since we need the money, spreading it out in such a broad way is actually one way to minimize the impact to the individual consumer.
    4. If our country were run like the Church (a la King Benjamin), we wouldn’t have these problems. Sigh.

    In response to Jimmy’s post, my basic disagreement is this:
    1. America is a great country. The greatest country in fact (due to BOM reasons but I also liked his evidence). Nobody is saying it is not a great country. He intentionally misquoted Barack. And he took the converse of his statement to be true when that is a logical fallacy. It’s a typically hysterical response.
    2. Every politician from every time has run on the platform “We have some problems that need fixed. I’m the person to fix it for you.” To penalize Obama for saying exactly what every other candidate has said, now says and will say is silly. Nobody says “America is a great country. I wouldn’t change a thing. I just want to get elected to, you know, carry on the status quo” Of course he’s running on a platform of change. So’s McCain.
    3. I’m not voting for Michele.

    Hopefully this makes sense. Sorry I hijacked your comments! I just looooove talking politics:) Can we still be friends??

  4. PS> I’m not saying I hate Bush. He did a lot of things right. Just don’t like his fiscal policy.
    PPS> I actually haven’t made up my mind as to whom I wil be voting for. I just didn’t find his argument against Obama convincing. You want to convince me to not vote for Obama talk to me about his platforms – tell me what you don’t like about his healthcare plan.
    PPSS>Michele, whether she is right or wrong, is saying what a LOT of people in the country are saying.
    Last PS I SWEAR> Any tax law would have to be passed by congress. People think the president has way more power then he actually does. the only way he could implement any of his policies is with the support of the representatives WE elect. Get local, people:)

  5. It’d be nice if someone could figure out how to stabilize the price of gas. So it doesn’t keep bouncing all over the place, you know?

    I miss the days when gas was LESS than $1.00 per gallon. Ahhh…

    Time to get a tandem bike for the family, I guess!

  6. Pingback: The Entreblog! » Should We Try To Lower Gas Prices?

  7. @Charlotte: I responded to your main point in a new post. Check it out and let me know what you think. Regarding the other points:

    1. I’m sure why oil dependence is better than dependence on some other fuel. Even if we switched tomorrow, we’d be having the same conversation in 10 years.
    2. “The government has to get it’s money somewhere.” Actually, it doesn’t. It could just stop literally stealing my money and forcing me to pay for “services” I don’t want. That would be better.
    3. See #2 above.
    4. “If our country were run like the Church (a la King Benjamin), we wouldn’t have these problems.” – Amen, Sister.

    Regarding the Obama thing, I think there’s a difference between saying “we need change” and “I’m ashamed of America”. But, even if he had an American flag tattooed to his face, I still wouldn’t vote for him.

    Finally, you’re right, the President has to have Congress convinced to get anything done. However, he’s got a pretty good position from which to publicize his views and disseminate (mis)information. So, it’s still important to elect the right president. It’s just also important to elect the right local representatives.

    @Ailene – Great idea! I need more exercise anyway!

  8. 1. It WOULD be better to be dependent on a fuel other than oil. How about one that isn’t bringing on environmental armeggedon? Or at least one that doesn’t make us reliant on despotic, corrupt nations that want to kill us?

    2. & 3. You made me laugh sooo hard with this:) You libertarian, you. I can’t even argue with that.

    Re: Obama – HE DIDN”T SAY HE WAS ASHAMED OF AMERICA! YOU said that. JIMMY said that. Stop misquoting him! He just said that he wanted American people abroad to be proud of their country. Don’t we all want that? I took his remarks totally differently than you guys did.

    We are in total agreement on your last point.

  9. @Charlotte: My only response is to point 1. There are many nations who are despotic and corrupt. The only reason these nations matter to us is oil. If another country, just as despotic and corrupt corners the market on another type of fuel, we’ll be in the same boat.

    There’s nothing inherently evil about oil.

  10. A) Nations are not despotic and corrupt – their leaders are. The people of said nations are likely only guilty of tolerating the corruption and submitting to the despotism.
    B) Some nations in the world have no other natural resources of value to the world than oil. (Until someone figures out how to run a car on sand.)
    C) Hatred for America is basically rooted in the fact that we have “everything” and wallow in the superficiality of American Idol and Dancing With the Stars, whereas a majority of the inhabtants of the countries who hate us the most are struggling to survive in abject poverty.

    So…
    Eliminating our dependance on foreign oil will thrust those countries even deeper into their America-hating poverty.

    Therefore…
    We would ensure greater national security for ourselves, economic prosperity (nearer to equality) for more of the world’s nations, and an increased measure of world peace if we maintain our dependance on foreign oil and instead focus our efforts eliminating the despots and corrupt leaders of the world and replacing their governments with democracies. (Whoa, did I just imply that George W. Bush might actually have the right idea?)

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